countdown to the democrats' debate and at least one candidate is giving a hint of potential strategy. who stands to gain or lose the most on tuesday. two more reports on the shooting of a cleveland 12-year-old. they both say a reasonable amount of force was used by police. we'll get reaction to that. donald trump's southern swing. it included a visit with black

pastors. we'll talk to one pastor who met -- sat down with trump and asked him what went on inside that meeting room. controversy smt sports world. some are calling this a dirty play at a key moment in the baseball playoffs. very good sunday to you. it's high noon in the east. 9 in the west. welcome to weekends with alex witt. i'm richard lui. politics, the democratic presidential candidates preparing for tuesday night. the big night. their first debate of the 2016 election. bernie sanders gave a preview of his strategy he may use on this morning's "meet the press." >> at a time when so few have so much and when the big money interests have so much political power, the real most important question is who is prepared to

mobilize the american people to stand up to these very powerful and wealthy special interests? whose track record for the last 25 years has been to say to wall street, you know what, we are going to have to break up the large financial institutions. >> this is a trust issue. you're basically saying, you know what, i've been there so you can trust that i'll never leave that fight. >> in a new poll out today donald trump continues his dominance of the republican primary. seven points ahead of ben carson while the rest of the field remains in the single digits. in a new interview this morning trump took on foreign policy saying he supports russia's bombing campaign in syria and offered his opposition in no uncertain terms coming to the u.s. >> what i won't do is take in 200,000 syrians who could be isis. john, i'm watching this migration and i see people. they're men. they're mostly men, they're strong men. these are physically young strong men. they look like primetime soldiers.

now it's probably not true, but where are the women? you see some women. you see some children. but for the most part i'm looking at these strong men. you ask two things, number one, why aren't they fighting for their country. number two, i don't want these people coming over here. >> joining us is paul singer and olivia nutsy, political commentator for the daily beast. let's go to the theater. tuesday is the big debate. bernie sanders, what does he do? is he going to defend or try to gain more support on the national stage? >> i think he's going to try to gain more support on the national stage. obviously compared to hillary clinton, fewer people know who bernie sanders is. bernie sanders has made a point over the fact that he's never run a negative ad in vermont. he's never come out swinging against one of his opponents. he's never hit them swinging. i think it's unlikely we'll see him attacking hillary clinton on a personal level. he'll do what he said, just make the case for himself, tell

people why they should like bernie sanders and hope that the contrasts speak for themselves. >> let's look at another one of the tea leaves and that is a question that was made by chuck todd on "meet the press." let's see what bernie sanders said about labeling his strategy. >> he said don't use the word socialist. i'm going to use the word progressive. are you pushing back on that? >> no. >> i'm a european socialist. >> look, when one of you republican colleagues get on the show do you say, are you a capitalist? have you ever referred to them as a capitalist? >> no. >> are you a capitalist? >> no, i'm a democratic socialist. i have a he been elected as an independent. i'm running in the democratic nomination process and will support -- i hope to win -- >> you'll support the democrats? >> i will. a lot of labels and words discussed back and forth, paul. for as long as he's been in washington, always perceived as an outsider by most.

>> right. >> why do you think that's the case. discussing this label as democratic socialist, will that help him in getting and gaining support as olivia was talking about. >> well, it helps him if he can mobilize a movement. bernie sanders is a movement politician. his campaign only works to the extent that it is a movement, a grassroots up rising of people who want to take back politics from the corporate structure, the wealthy or wall street. he has to make that case otherwise he's another guy running for office who thinks he'll be good as president. >> this has to be good for bernie sanders about the movement and the language of democratic socialism doesn't bother the movement. >> as we head into the debate on tuesday, let's look at some of the latest polling. we have the reuters/ipsos poll. while hillary clinton is in the lead, support fell by 10 points just within the last week. olivia, bernie sanders gaining 4 points as did vice president joe

biden, of course not in it yet. what do you think here? will issues like the iraq war vote that bernie sanders brought up on the stump, will that hurt hillary clinton tuesday in the debate? will we see that as a major point in the debate? >> i think it will hurt her. that was a huge issue for barack obama to bring up. i think sanders will bring that up. that was not enough for barack obama. it took barack obama making the case that hillary clinton wasn't trustworthy in order to ultimately defeat her. i don't think bernie sanders will be willing to make that same case. it remains to be seen whether that will be enough to rely on people noticing the contrasts between their different policy ideas. >> paul, you know, talking about the latest fallout over the benghazi committee and the developments related to that, as hillary clinton tries to move left, she has that objective, right? secretary objective is to not

appear to be the establishment candidate here, two very difficult objectives. and then as we were talking about the benghazi committee, all of those coming together. it seems like if you're just looking at the list of to-dos, it may be much more difficult for hillary clinton to negotiate through tuesday. >> well, and complicated by the fact that there are these two other candidates up there, well, three really. there's o'malley who's still a relatively serious candidate. >> right. >> jim web and lincoln chaffey. we have no idea what their goals are and what they're going to say. for hillary clinton going into that you have some sense of where bernie sanders is coming from and martin o'malley. the other two guys are total wild cards. they only benefit if they make a name for themselves. they may something crazy. >> that's a good point. who may team up to try to gain some ground by taking down at least in the polls hillary clinton or bernie sanders. olivia, your thought there?

>> i don't think we'll see any candidates team up. it's very likely that martin o'malley will have a moment. i think it's less likely that lincoln chaffey will have a moment. someone talking about the metric system, i don't think that's going to capture the imagination of the public. >> right. >> mark o'malley, certainly he has a lot going for him on the surface. they're very similar so i don't think it's as likely that martin o'malley will cut into it as it is that berp any sanders will. >> your call, who's it going to be on tuesday? >> the winner? >> yeah. what's your call. >> bernie. >> really? paul, what do you think? >> yeah, i think bernie has the most to gain and hillary has the most to lose from the debate. i would say bernie is probably going to succeed at making his case that he's a serious contender. >> game day on sunday here on msnbc. paul singer and olivia nuzzi both calling for bernie sanders.

thank you so much. more on the new claims of the house investigation and what it found in the 2012 benghazi attack that it is politically motivated and taking aim at democratic presidential candidate hillary clinton. the details laid out by a former staffer who is suing the committee. bradley podliska was an investigator for the committee. he told cnn this morning this. >> i'm trying to be objective about this. as i stated, hillary clinton has a lot of explaining to do. we, however, do not need to shift resources to hyper focus the issues. >> nbc's kristen welker at the white house for us on this sunday. kristen, good day to you. politically motivated? >> reporter: right. well, there's already been so much scrutiny of the benghazi committee. this is adding to it. not surprisingly the benghazi committee is firing back at that staffer and flipping his allegations on their head. this is what they say according

to a spokesperson with the committee, quote, one reason among others for which the employees was terminated was his repeated efforts of his own volition to have a powerpoint hit piece of members on the obama administration including secretary clinton that bother no -- bore no semblance to the investigation. the clinton campaign is firing back this morning. they say this in part, quote, these are explosive allegations and the campaign saying that the allegations underscore that the committee is a partisan sham from the start. now this all comes on the heels of house majority leader kevin mccarthy who just pulled out of the race to be house speaker suggesting that the committee was, in fact, aimed at draking secretary clinton's poll numbers down. this just adds to really the clinton km pain's fire.

expect the campaign to seize on the latest development leading up to the debate and october 22nd testimony before that committee to try to discredit the benghazi committee and gain some political traction from this. it certainly complicates things for the benghazi committee even though they're pushing back against the staffer. the reality is he is filing suit and speaking out. >> white house correspondent, kristen welker. thank you as always joompt something we're watching this morning in the middle east. an israeli airstrike killed a pregnant woman and her daughter. there was an explosion near the west bank checkpoint. the weekend violence was the latest in the attacks this weekend sparking fears of a palestinian uprising. texas police are under fire after they tasered a city council man outside of his home earlier in the week. the incident was caught on camera. police saying they were there to

question four men who were guests of council man jonathan miller as part of a routine patrol in an area having frequent drug activity. the council man interfered but he told police he was trying to see what was going on with the friends. one of the female officers involved in the incident was also involved in the arrest of sandra bland. bland died in jail in july after being pulled over for a traffic violation and then arrested for assaulting a public servant. medical examiners ruled her death a suicide but litigation is pending. >> we have six police officers. the probability of having the same officer involved in multiple type ens dents is possible. i haven't seen anything that gave me any cause for concern as far as this officer's conduct at this point. >> the men police initially questioned were not detained by police. the tasering incident is under police review. council man miller is out of

jail but faces charges with interfering with a public servant and resisting arrest. the video does not show what led up to that tasing. >> chase utley going hard at second as the tying run scores. >> major league baseball executive joe tori will be reviewing this controversial slide by chase utley into new york mets shortstop reuben teja tejada. it happened during last night's national league game. it left a broken leg. the dodgers went on to tie the best of five series. torey will decide if the play warrants any further discipline for utley. >> take you to weather. heavy rains doesing massive flooding. students captured this video of water rushing into their high school football field. the strong storm also brought down trees and caused mudslides. down the coast in california not too far away, a different story.

residents in los angeles flocked to the beaches. guess what, 108 degree weather. head to the beaches, my friend. officials say 60 people though in the area suffered heat exhaustion and 20 were hospitalized. now weather channel meteorologist kelly cass is here with the weather headlines for us. >> well, it feels more like the 4th of july weekend rather than columbus day weekend especially in the middle of the country back towards the southwest. got a ridge of high pressure. that will keep the temperatures way above average for this time of year. for some of you, as much as 30 degrees above average. we're talks record-breaking heat. north and south dakota windy. minneapolis, got you going way up into the 80s. that is well above average for this time of year. minneapolis, average high is 20 degrees cooler than that. omaha, up to 89. st. louis, 10 degrees above average with the highs in the lower 80s. breaking out the short sleeves,

that's for sure. no need for jackets across texas. state fair continuing there. 95 degrees. looks like the heat will also be an issue for us across the southwestern united states with vegas getting up to 94. phoenix, that 98 is even above average for you. in the northeast, not bad. temperatures pretty tolerable with highs in the mid 70s for the most part. kelly cass. two new reports released on the fatal shooting of a 12-year-old boy by police. those say the officer used reasonable force. coming up, the family responds to the reports. and what was the reaction when congressman mccarthy made his shocking announcement not to run for the speaker of the house? easy. building them all in four and a half months? now that was a leap. i was calling in every favor i could, to track down enough lumber to get the job done. and i knew i could rely on american express to help me buy those building materials. there are always going to be unknowns.

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as another week begins without a new speaker of the

house, are republican hard liners softening their stance. in a new interview this morning, congressman jim jordan said he would be open to congressman paul ryan entering the race. >> we've endorsed daniel webster but paul ryan is a goodman. he's a great skmun a communicat. if he gets in the race i think our group be would look favorably on him. we're much more concerned about reforming the institution. >> joining me is republican congressman blake farenhold. thank you for being here. >> good to be with you. >> who do you like? >> i'm keeping my powder dry. i don't know who all the candidates are. there are people nosing around getting in. >> you didn't like the eye tee of speaker mccarthy. you're not lining up here for paul reign as well. why not those two? >> over this constituent work

period when we're home, we'll have the opportunity to talk to folks that we represent. all the congressmen are back in their district and the members thinking about running are picking up the phone trying to line up support. at a texan, i'd love to see a texan in the speaker's chair. >> all right. give me a name. >> i think there are three looking around. i don't want to out anybody who hasn't announced. >> i won't tell them, congressman. you can tell me though. >> oh, i do think there are a couple of texans who would make great speak eers. paul ryan is starting to get pushing back. jim jordan said it in a previous interview. we have to have somebody who's able to communicate what we're doing in the house. we're doing a lot of good and it's all dying in the senate and not going anywhere with the president. we need someone who can communicate it and turn up the heat on the president and

senate. >> do you want a speaker that loves the deal, maybe you saw it in the op eds in "the new york times", or can get deals done? >> you need a speaker who can get deals done but you have to have a speaker who can unite the party. here's the issue. the republican party, we'll agree on 90% of the issue but there's all of the fracture and hurt feelings in there and the opportunity to have this debate within the republican conference about who the next speaker is gives us the opportunity to talk about not so much who we want for a speaker but what we want in a speaker. i think that will be cathartic for our group. >> what's the other quality? >> good communicator. willing to stand up against the senate and president and somebody who will listen. you need a little bit of humility in the job, too. >> humility is what you're looking for. you have been quoted saying that after speaker boehner's announcement that your

constituents complained that he was caving to the obama administration. are you looking then i guess for somebody who is very much a fighter? you were saying somebody who can communicate and stand up to the white house and senate. what are your constituents telling you they want? >> i think that's exactly what they want. they want somebody who doesn't give away the negotiating positions who can move the ball to the right. >> i was reading a very interesting statement being made as i was alluding earlier in the op ed. you're looking for tea party bonafitas. that is one quality that has been discussed in finding a candidate for the speaker of the house. and the name that was brought up is not even in the house and that's utah's junior senator mike lee. are you looking for somebody like that, somebody who is sort

of a lieutenant of the ted cruz sort of energy? >> i don't think anybody outside of the current house of representatives is a viable choice. it's fun to talk about -- >> right, which we have. >> -- and speculate. it's a lot of media fodder. i do think it's going to be somebody in the house. it's somebody who is sympathetic to the tea party but isn't so -- i don't know, i guess the term is light your hair on fire that they're not going to be able to work with the tuesday group and the moderate and mainstream republicans. you've got to have somebody who can pull it together but who really is working to lower taxes, bring more freedom back to the people, shrink the size of more government. they've got to go with some of the tea party ideals and move forward in that direction. >> all right. so as you've been saying, you've been keeping your powder dry, maybe not on this when we look at 2016, you've got some choices there. what candidate are you leaning towards? >> you know, no candidate wants

me to choose them. >> oh, congressman. >> no, my favorites are both out now. rick perry and scott walker were both kind of top of my list and they're both out now. carly fiorina looked real good but i hate to say it because that may be the kiss of death for her. >> thank you so much, congressman. we'll revisit, circle back with you as we get closer to the choice as speaker of the house and as we move towards 2016. congressman farentholt, thank you very much. >> you've got my cell phone number. call me any time. >> what did donald trump, speaking of candidates, say to a group of african-american pastors that got him a few proclamations of strong support? i'll talk with someone who met with the billionaire presidential candidate. ♪

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up about three cents in the past week. the average for regular, $2.32 a gallon. that's 1.08 less than la$1.08 l year. the average motorists have saved money but instead of banking the bucks a new jpmorgan chase says americans have spent 80% of the savings. 20% is being spent at restaurants, grocery stores are the second biggest beneficiaries. americans are facing sky high atm fees meanwhile. a new bank rate.com report says the average out of network atm fee has risen to a record of about $4.50 but where does it cost the most. would you have guessed atlanta? $5.15 a transaction. new york has the second highest fees at just over $5. phoenix out of network fees cost $4.88.

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and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a great taste. i don't plan on slowing down any time soon. stay strong. stay active with boost®. welcome back to "weekends with alex witt." i'm richard lui in for alex witt. we'll move to cleveland where the family of tamir rice is voicing their outrage. a retired fbi agent and a prosecutor from denver in two separate reviews say that rookie police officer timothy lowman used a reasonable use of force when he approached and fatally shot the 12-year-old boy in november of 2014. they each say here they were evaluating officer lohman's actions under the constitution. they were responding to the 911 call of an air gun.

timothy mcginty says in part we are not reaching any conclusions from these reports. the gathering of evidence and the grand jury will evaluate it all. a grand jury has been commissioned. an attorney for rice's family released this statement saying the rice family and clevelanders have always said they want the officers who rushed upon and killed 12-year-old tamir held accountable. the family now believes that the prosecutor's office has been on an 11-month quest for providing that accountability. any presentation to a grand jury without the prosecutor advocating for tamir is a charade. to get so-called experts to assist in the white watch when the world has the video of what happened is all the more ala alarming. these supposed experts all pro police dodged the simple fact that they rushed tamir and shot him instantly. reasonable jurors could find that conduct unreasonable but

they will never get the chance because they're working diligently to ensure there is no indictment or accountability. who will speak for tamir before the grand jury? not the prosecutor apparently and that's the response from the family. joining me is paul butler, professor at georgetown university and former federal prosecutor. thanks for being here, paul. we laid it all out there. you've been able to read through those reports. what's your response? >> you know, these reports by investigators who were hand picked by the prosecutor's office justify the sin any simpt that people have about the criminal jugs tstice system. if you can't get a prosecution in this case for a 12-year-old boy that's rushed on by officers who jump out and one shoots him, you can't get a -- if you can't get a prosecution in a case like this, you can't get a prosecution in any case.

this is a violation of what any cop learns in the academy. if you get a call about a shooter, you cover and communicate. you don't expose yourself to fire and use that as an excuse to shoot. it's incompetence. gross incompetence. >> putting on your prosecutor hat. officer lohman's actions were objectively reasonable. going on to say former fbi agent kimberly crawford saying not only was he required to make a split second decision but it was reasonable. objectively reasonable. split second decision. how will this play out for the grand jury? >> you know, if i were prosecuting this case, this is what i would want the grand jury to know. when the officer jumped out of that car and shot tamir, the car was still moving. that's how quick it was. it was less than two seconds.

so the question for the grand jury is is this what a reasonable police officer would do? and the answer we know is no. if we look at the background of this cop, he failed police academy. why? because he had a dangerous loss of composure when it came to shooting incidents. just like this. this is a cop that shouldn't be on the force. the grand jury will be allowed to consider all of the circumstances including the fact that hasta mir lie bleeding and dying on the ground, he laid dying, bleeding, what did the cops do? his sister was distraught. they jumped on her, put her in handcuffs and put her in the back of the car. all of this is evidence about the state of mind and consciousness of guilt of these two officers. >> i want to share a little bit from prosecutor mcginty in his statement critical of the police union. i'll read from it. the union operates by double standard. it rightly asks the general

public to have the courage to cooperate with police in serious criminal investigations yet when the conduct of officers is being investigated refuses to help. the police union statement here does not address the prosecutor's criticism but does say this in part. while we agree wholeheartedly with the findings of the independent investigators, we're not celebrating them. what kind of impact will it have if police do not cooperate? >> i think grand jurors understand everyone who's a suspect of a crime has a constitutional right not to incriminate themselves. here's the thing. that never stops prosecutors from bringing cases. if i'm representing a client and i know the government's looking at them. i tell them not to talk. assert the fifth. but people in that situation get prosecuted all the time. again, there's so much evidence of gross negligence.

this is not a case where you need to know a lot about police expertise. it's really what's reasonable. anyone who watches that tragic video can believe their own eyes. it's clear that the police acted rashly in this case. this 12-year-old boy did not deserve to die. >> paul butler, thank you for your expertise. professor at georgetown university. former federal prosecutor. >> great to be here. donald trump taking his campaign to the south this weekend be. during his stop near atlanta he met with a group of african-american pastors. some of whom were vocal in their desire to see him as the next president. >> i don't know what type of legislator he is or will be. i don't know what type of judicial eightor he is or would be, but i know one thing he's a hell of a chief executive. i can't think of a better person, a better let leader to lead this country to where america needs to go. the gop front-runner privately met with dozens of

pastors ahead of his rally in georgia and had that press conference you see there. including in that group was our next guest, pastor mark burns who joins me from south carolina. pastor, what did you talk about? >> you know, it was discussed first of all just the pressures and some of the engagement that mr. trump needs to make with african-americans moving forward to help bridge the gap and the differences that many feel about it. >> pastor, how did he talk about race? >> he believes that he's striving obviously to make that connection and seeing more towards the african-american race. he believes he's connecting with what everyone, all races, he loves all races, black, hispanic no matter what race they are, he's really believing that he is

connecting with them on their level. >> pastor burns, you've heard the criticism of candidate donald trump and what he has said. know the pictures of the group of pastors and donald trump also side by side. all these things don't seem to be coming together because of what he said in the past and you and a group of clergy meeting with him. how do you respond to that incongruity? >> the whole group of pastors requiring it, it bridges the hatred and separation of races. mr. trump reaches out to us to speak with him. we together the pastors from

across the country, many of them came to meet with them. the review of how many african-americans may view him. mr. trump is not the racist that many believe based on statements and media. that's not the key at all. i personally had many -- several opportunities to speak with them in the two meetings that i've met with them. >> that's a convincing job. >> what did you convince donald trump in your two meetings with him to do and change? >> one of the things that we really emphasize, one, you need to connect with the black community through the black church. it's so important that he

reaches out to the black church, still speaks very prominent to the african-american race throughout america. it is important that he continues -- continue, that's the key word, to connect with prominent leaders across america to make sure that that speech and that statement is moving forward, that he is a person of the people for the people and he represents all of america whether you're black, white, hispanic. >> are you endorsing him? are you endorsing him, pastor? >> the thing that i'm endorsing is donald trump's strong stance on christianity. many believe that christianity is under attack and that we begin to lose certain religious liberties to be who we are in public. many, as you can state, many instances of the ten commandments have been removing from public places, schools are unable to sing christian hymnal

songs and a coach is unable to pray, again, before football games so these are the things -- >> but do you endorse him to be president? i'll ask that again. do you endorse him to be a president? it sounds like you're a big fan of him. is that a yes or no? >> well, i truly believe again that he stands for something that very few candidates are standing for, which is christianity. having the right to be christians. i've said it before. if the atheists have a right to be an atheist in public, then christians should have the right to be christians in public, especially in the work plates without persecution. i endorse wholeheartedly his stance on christianity. i believe based off that he's not been a politician with a politician record that he brings something very brand new which is why many americans are really hovetating to him. >> it sounds like you're shy of the yes. you're saying no to the yes. pastor burns. >> no, not at all shy. >> we've got to go. i thank you so much for your

time today. we could tall all afternoon. >> no problem. >> thanks for having us. >> have a good sunday. the first democratic debate just days away. a look at what to expect. miles. sometimes those seats cost a ridiculous number of miles... or there's a fee to use them. i know. it's so frustrating. they'd be a lot happier with the capital one venture card. and you would, too! why? it's so easy with venture. you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. just book any flight you want then use your miles to cover the cost. now, that's more like it. what's in your wallet?

48 hours to go before the big show. in a new interview msnbc's al sharpton asked bernie sanders how he will set himself apart from hillary clinton when they take the stage. >> we have real differences of opinion, and to my mind the major issue is at a time when the american middle class is disappearing and we have more wealth and income inequality on earth and it's getting worse, which candidate is prepared to stand up to corporate america, wall street and the big money interests who have so much power over our economic and political

life? that is the major issue of this campaign and i will respectfully say i am that candidate. >> joining us is former vermont governor and dnc chair howard dean. governor, you've been here before. what are you looking for when you look at bernie sanders? you saw the argument that he would like to make on tuesday night? >> he will make that argument. i think it'll be a fun debate. i would not discount martin o'malley. he is a pretty skilled debater and long-time senior office holder in the democratic party. i think it will be very interesting. >> governor to governor, right? what do you think he's going to say as the only governor standing up there? >> i think he's going to taut his practical experience. hillary has enormous experience. but there's a lot of people who don't know much about martin o'malley. he has a very good record on

education. bernie will give his message which is incredibly effective. hillary will show she's incredibly experienced. i think the sleeper here is martin. it will be interesting to see how this goes. >> yeah. yeah. we'll see if his points resonate, one of which is gun control. >> hillary, what are you watching for. >> i love the fact that governor says a fun debate. we never use fun. i'm glad more people are engaged. the football adage that on any given sunny given team can win applies here, especially when it comes to debates and what people are looking for. i think what is very clear is especially with the top two names to be considered whether we talk about sanders or hillary clinton, you're not going to be changing any minds. somebody like hillary clinton has been on the national stage since the early 1990s. people have an opinion about her whether they like her or don't and i think more so you're going to see some soft movement. you're going to solidify this base of opposition or solidify this base of support.

that's what's kind of different and distinct about this first debate. >> leslie, she'll be standing in the middle of the five candidates there. she'll be front and center there. as we've seen, in the early m s months of her campaign she's continuing in the limelight. >> she was trying that invisible campaign and trying to move and build the ground swell of support. learn the lessons of 2008. those are difficult to do when you're the establishment candidate, when there's such a trustworthy issue. people have formed very strong opinions. this is not news about hillary clinton and they've calcified. changing that is extremely difficult. but, again -- >> actually, i think i dusisagr with that. i think hillary has a great shot. for about six months she's been painted by the media into something she's not. her opportunity in the debate is to show who she is. she is actually quite likeable and unbelievably smart and well qualified to be president. i actually do think this is an

opportunity for her to get out from all the media stereotypes and the quick shots and commentary. >> governor, i want to move on to this. this is also developing last week, the trans-pacific partnership likely to come up as well in this very debate. in 2012 though as you both know then secretary clinton called it the, quote, gold standard of trade deals and as you both know she changed her stance. how will that affect -- this is something sanders will push. he probably will. to what level of efficacy? governor and then you, leslie? >> my view is when she's secretary of state she's working for another somebody else, she has a certain role to play. i do believe the trans-pacific partnership is a good thing for american security and for our international relations but hurk is running on doing something for the middle class. president obama said in the past

some of these trade agreements have hurt middle class people. so i don't find this to be particularly flip-flop. i think the role is different. i think she's saying what she thinks. i think that's a good thing. >> leslie? >> i think that's a nice piece of spin but that's not the reality. voters tend to be much more skeptical when they hear two sides of the same argument from the same candidate. it's difficult to say she was in administration touting someone's ideas. she's an independent thinker. she has taken strong opinions and reversing those. if anybody is feeling it it's hillary clinton. >> i want to get to this really quickly here. let's switch over to the gop before we finish this segment here. new poll out today finds that donald trump still has a strong lead with ben carson seven points behind. the numbers are going back and forth. leslie, then the governor here. what are we seeing happening in this week?

>> again, i think you're still seeing a tremendous amount of frustration in the republican side, that they want candidates to really address middle class issues. talk about economic prosperity for everyone. i think overall on both sides of the aisle it's important to shake things up. watching torn needs to reformed. donald trump is getting all the allure of that right now. i think that will change once we start getting to the first four primary states. >> governor? >> i think those numbers are fantastic. i mean really interesting. the huge loser is jeb bush. he has lots of name recognition and most interesting is marco rubio at 8%. >> right. nkts i don't think he's well defined. the inside the beltway people like him. ted cruz has established himself as a legitimate contender for the nomination.

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the family of tamir rice react to two prosecution reports that call his death tragic, heartbreaking and police officer's action reasonable. >> i cannot go to jail by myself. i'm begging you, please. >> a plea ignored. a judge sends a domestic abuse victim to jail for failing to testify against her very own attacker. is that fair? that woman is now speaking out. debate showdown just ahead. what's the advantage bernie sanders says he has on hillary clinton? and it was a year without shopping. 365 days. what was the point of a family who refused to indulge themselves? hello, everyone. welcome to "weekends with alex witt." i'm richard lui in for alex. it's 1:00 in the east, 10:00 in the west.

developing. let's begin with the new reports out of cleveland justifying the actions of the ohio police officer who shot and killed 12-year-old tamir rice who was later found carrying an air kbun. the reports were released last night by the prosecutor's office and what they say in an effort to be transparent as a grand jury decides whether or not to bring charges against the office. nbc chanelle jones has the latest. >> reporter: 12-year-old tamir rice's final moments caught on tape. the boy waiving an air gun in a cleveland park. a caller to 911 alerted police. >> scaring [ bleep ]. >> reporter: cleveland police officer tim loehmann arrived on the scene with another officer but were not told it was probably a fake. loehmann shot and killed the boy when he reached for his waistband. tamir rice's death along with other officer shootings sparked riots. in two reports released by

prosecutors last night, investigators found the officer acted reasonably. one investigator writing, there can be no doubt that reiice's death is tragic. officer's loehmann's belief that he posed a threat was objectively reasonable. officer loehmann could still face criminal charges. prosecutors are saying they're not drawing any conclusions and that it will be up to a grand jury to decide. an attorney for the rice family blasted the reports writing that these supposed experts all pro police dodged the simple fact that the officers rushed tamir and shot him immediately without assessing the situation in the least. reasonable jurors could find that conduct unreasonable but they will never get the chance because the prosecutor is working diligently to ensure that there is no indictment and no accountability. in an interview last december

tamir rice's mother grieved for her son. >> i'm going for justice for my son and a change in the nation for nobody else's child have to go through this. >> local prosecutors have commissioned additional reports. the findings are still to come. they're blasting a local police union saying they've refused to help in this probe. coming up in just a few minutes for you. what can our elected leaders in washington do to help reduce the number of police shootings? we'll speak to political activist dere mckesson who spoke about the need for police reform. the most powerful job on hill today remains the least wanted job on capitol hill. republicans still without a new speaker of the house. there are signs the hard liners may be softening. >> we've endorsed daniel webster

but paul ryan is a goodman. a great communicator. the type of messenger our party needs. we're much more concerned about reforming the institution. >> congressman ryan says, no, i'm not going to run. he was warned against it. >> i think paul should be very cautious. he is the most prestigious member of the house on the republican side. he has a bright future. he's still very young. it's easy to get 218 on the volt and then you get to keeping the government open and the debt ceiling and by christmas you look like john boehner. new pol on the gop contest shows donald trump still in the lead. rebecca bird is political

reporter for real clear politics. you saw the numbers, it's up and down and he's still at the top. >> he is. the republicans working for some of the more conventional campaigns, jeb bush, marco rubio, those sorts of candidates. those are the people who for months have said donald trump is a temporary fad and eventually his numbers are going to deflate on their own. we have seen them deflate. it's important to note that he was higher in the polls a month or two ago. >> yeah. >> he's still holding the lead very solidly. i think that's a huge surprise. >> rebecca, you know in d.c. as you're sitting around talking to your fellow journalists, the interesting part might be at the bottom of that poll. that was made of former governor howard dean. he was saying, hey, look, there's no jeb bush in the top four. look at marco rubio, ted cruz.

that's the latest in the latest results. >> that is interesting. it runs counter to what the conventional wisdom is the whole time which is come the fall people would start to look at the race a little more seriously and naturally gravitate towards the more traditional candidates. so far we're not seeing that happening. i think if i were jeb bush or marco rubio i would start to get more worried. >> as we see the below the top two outside of trump and carson, they're the interesting ones to watch. as we look at the winnowing, fall, moving into february 1st, because we're seeing movement below the top two, it might invigorate them to stay on longer. >> right. that's obviously a concern for republicans if you're looking at a situation where a candidate comes and takes some of this

momentum for donald trump because as long as you have all of this jostling in the lower tier, it makes it a lot easier for them to stay at the top. that's what scott walker pointed out when he dropped out of the race. >> right. right. those who are responding to what's happening in washington as they try to get to washington and these candidates. this is donald trump and what he tweeted when congressman kevin mccarthy suddenly dropped out of the house speaker's race here. washington, d.c., is such a mess. nothing works. i will make america great again. it's not going to happen with anyone else. washington outsider. that clearly seems to be a theme right now not only in washington, in the house, but also for the nomination for the republicans. >> absolutely. so it's obvious that a candidate like donald trump who's on the outside would try to take advantage of that anti-washington sentiment that we're seeing among voters.

just to prove how strong a message this is, you look to the candidates you would associate with washington. marco rubio, even he is trying to use this anti-washington residence. >> talking about rubio, he is one that is open for definition, shall we say, to the majority of those who might move one way or the other in the republican party. as he's trying to formulate who he will be, shall we say, what will be the key message? >> well, his key message has been so far that he's a republican who can unite deflections. >> he's looking to bridge the divide between conservatives and more moderate establishment republicans. he says he he's a big space. he thinks differently than the other candidates. he hasn't had his moment in the spotlight in the primary where we've seen a good measure of whether that measure will start. >> let's move to tuesday.

i know you're watching that. 48 hours, we'll be sitting at our tchs. i want to play a little bit of bernie sanders and what was just released and where they will be standing on the stage. hillary clinton in the middle, sanders and webb and o'malley and chaffee. i want to share with you what he said earlier. tpp. i think they have been a disaster for the american worker. a lot of corporations that shut down here move abroad. people will have to contrast my consistency and my willingness to stand up to big corporations with the secondary. >> bernie sanders saying here, i'm going to push her on the fact that she changed her support for tpp.

how will that resonate in this debate? will that be the key issue? >> well, i think we should note that bernie sanders has been very, very adamant about not wanting to run a negative campaign, not wanting to attack his opponent. he is going to attack clinton in an interesting way by having a flip-flop. it's a distinction but it's a powerful message. it's worked so far for him in this campaign. we've seen a lot of his supporters appreciate the fact that if you look forward to the career for many years in the united states senate in vermont, he has been extremely consist t consistent. >> i'm doing the lui straw poll here today. who are you picking for tuesday? >> oh, that's a tough question. i think this could be a big opportunity for bernie sand zer

actually. you look at his popularity, but the number that strikes me, nerlner naerlly 1/3 haven't made up their mind. >> that's three for bernie sanders so far in the last hour and a half. clearly nonscientific. rebecca, thank you so much. >> thank you, richard. new claims today that the house select committee on benghazi is clearing out an investigation. he's suing the committee over his firing made the claims. he repeated his assertions on cnn this morning. >> i'm trying to be objective about this. as i stated, hillary clinton has a lot of explaining to do. we, however, do not need to shift resources to focus on hillary clinton. we didn't need to diem if a size and in some cases drop the investigation on different agencies, different organizations and different individual. >> nbc's kristen welker is at

the white house for us. kristen, what's the latest on this for us. >> reporter: well, look, the bens committee has been under a lot of scrutiny so this only adds to that. the committee is pushing back against those allegations by the former investigations are. it was his repeated efforts of his own volition to have a powerpoint hit piece to members of the obama administration including hillary clinton that isn't with the current tone, focus or investigative plan. this shows defending the committee including republican tom poll. listen to what he had to say about that committee, tre. >> this is one you have to look at the commit me chair and make a decision.

trey gowdy has incredible integrity. i think he's conducted himself well. he'll be under extra scrutiny going forward. at the end of the day it will stand on its own. i have a lot of confidence in trey. >> reporter: the clinton campaign is seizing on this news. here's what a clinton spokesperson said earlier today, quote, these are explosive allegations. from inside the benghazi committee, they may provide the most significant prove to date that this has been a partisan sham from the part. helping the clinton campaign just this past week or several days ago the house majority leader kevin mrk car think suggested that this committee was abls at dragging the poll numbers down. he was putting his name into the ring for becoming the next speaker of the house. he withdrew that the last week. the clinton campaign has not

been shy about hammering him and the committee. you can expect to see more of that in the coming case as we get closer to the first democratic debate. as we get closer to the 22 deadline, that's when hillary clinton testifies. >> thank you for joining us on this sunday. a new development in the case of boh bergdahl. raising the possibility that he will not attack. the 83-year-old is talking about her frightening experience. at safelite, we know how busy life can be.

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even curvier. but what's next? for all binge watchers. movie geeks. sports freaks. x1 from xfinity will change the way you experience tv. the sister in law of dr. martin luther king jr. says she bears no ill will towards the person who punched her in the face twice during a car jacking attempt. the attack happened friday when

83-year-old nahomi king was driving the retirement home -- to the retirement home where she lives in atlanta. she said two people approached her car and demanded she get out. when she refused one of the suspects punched her on the cheek and then her mouth. mrs. king spoke to reporters and has this message for her attacker. >> you need to get it altogether and learn and go for yourself and get your own things together so when he turned away and ran away i said a quick prayer and i thanked god that my injuries was just at a minimum. >> police are looking now for those suspects. a significant development today in the case of army sergeant boh bergdahl who was captured by the taliban after leaving his post and faces charges of desertion. an officer who presided over the article 32 hearing have recommended that it go to a civilian misdemeanor charge where the maximum punishment

would be reduction of rank, discharge of the army and short jail term. bergdahl's charges could carry a penalty of life in prisonment. a medal of honor recipient and msnbc military analyst. colonel, thanks for joining us. is this a surprise and is it likely to happen, do you think? >> it's possible it might happen. i think what's not a surprise is a recommendation to go down a course of action where he wouldn't get any jail time because very few people really believe that he would spend a significant amount of time in jail in any case. the recommendation goes to general abrams who can take it or decide against it. just about anything is liable to happen. >> from what you know about sergeant bergdahl's case, why would they move it to a lesser charge based on what we're hearing? >> to get rid of it. it's been on the air waves for a long time. i think it may be the command's

decision that perhaps they don't need to have this dragged out anymore. they can get him out of the army ultimate ultimately. they don't have to do something that drags on. he is reduced in grade, winds up leaving the army and it's far less unpleasant for the institution this way. don't forget general abrams can ignore it and bring it to court martial if he wants. >> how is the military community reacting to the possibility of this happening in the news we're talking about today? >> it's a good question. not with a great deal of pleasure. most of the people i talked to, both people on active duty and people who are retired, enlisted men and officers all feel the same way that this guy out to get the book thrown at him. he was in a come bad zobat zone.

he had a responsibility to his fellow soldiers and decided to bail out. he deserves an enormous amount of punishment. he shouldn't be let off easy but the people who spend time in combat field feel strongly. the most likely they'll take that recommendation. bergdahl will get nonjudicial punishment, spend some time on restriction, pay allowances restricted. be on restricted services. he won't get a bad conduct discharge. that can only be adjudged by a court martial. like we said, i think the general is liable if not likely to follow the recommendations and get it off the army's books. >> colonel jack jacobs, thank you so much. >> you're welcome. they gathered in the nation's capitol for a mission of change but what do they want to accomplish? pants.

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thousands marched on the mall for the million man march. nation of islam leader louis farrah can led the march. >> our war is on two fronts. we got to stop the killing in the inner city and stop the killing of us from police wicketness. j le >> let's go now to msnbc's trumaine lee who got the reaction. >> reporter: thousands of people from all across the country descended upon the national mall to get the message from minister lewis farrah can. this year's theme was justice for all or else. he asked 10 thousand men and 10,000 women to go back to the community and stand against corrupt police and politicians. black women, black women,

families, all gathered here, the message was clear. now is the time for justice. now i spoke with a number of people who gathered here today. here's what they had to say. >> it was great to see the unity to have transformative justice in our individual communities as a nation and really worldwide for us to all stand up together. >> our vices are important. when we use them collectively we can create change. working together is paramount to making changes for these issues. >> well, this moment is certainly a feel-good moment for many of those i spoke with. there still remains one question, justice or what else. for them it's about stepping up on the backs of all that fought hard and joining those who believe now is the time for justice. >> msnbc's trumaine lee, thank you. it was sudden and stunning. a texas city council man is tasered by a police officer with ties to another controversial case. n quickly

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welcome back to "weekends with alex witt." police in prairie view texas are under investigation after they tasered a city council man outside of his home. the incident was caught on camera. it turns out one of the officers on scene was involved in another controversial arrest that made national headlines. nbc's sarah dallof has the story. >> reporter: this dramatic cell phone video captures the moment prairie view texas police taser council man jonathan miller. authorities releasing body cam video. >> i'm not trying to be combative. >> i'm not either. >> reporter: it started as police questioned four men, guests of mill lettermiller's. the council man told police he was trying to see what was going on with his friends interfered with their investigation. >> i live here. >> i'm telling you, this is her scene. back off. you're interfering.

>> moments later, the city escalates. >> turn around. >> i'm not saying nothing. get your hands off me. >> turn around. >> i'm not saying nothing. >> cell phone video shows miller on his knees when a male officer deployed his taser. it's posted on instagram captioned when will the abuse end. bland died and then arrested for assaulting a public servant. they ruled her death a suicide but litigation is pending. >> get out of the car. >> it was a state trooper who pulled bland over but prairie view police confirm that a female officer involved in that arrest was also involved in council man miller's case. >> we have six police officers. the probability of having the same officer involved in multiple type incidents is probable. i haven't seen anything that gave me any cause for concern as far as this officer's conduct at this point. >> reporter: the men police

initially questioned were detained. this morning council man miller is out of jail but faces charges of interfering with a public servant and resisting arrest. sarah dallof, nbc news. the democratic candidates for their party's democratic nomination will face off tuesday night. hillary clinton sat down with black lives matters advocates friday to discuss the issues of race and the krim nam justice system. after the meeting clinton tweeted racism is america's original sin. he's one of the founding members of campaign zero which works to improve community and police relations. he was a participant be in friday's meeting. thank you for joining us. tell us what you took away from that conversation based on the points that were raised with hillary clinton. >> okay. thank you for inviting me here. we had a 90 minute tough, frank talk with secretary clinton talking about a range of issues

from private prisons to demill tar rising police to a new deal with black people. it was promising. i'm hoping it will influence the platform that we're hoping comes out in the next couple of weeks. >> what were the specifics when you talk about a new deal. >> she acknowledged that american was founded on racism. it was the original sin in the meeting and as she tweeted. we talked about what does that understanding do or mean with your platform as potentially the next president of the united states. she committed in her first 100 days to be ready to introduce legislation that sort of highlights a disparity in race. she talked about formulas in the 10-2030 plan. policing and ending private prisons are priorities for her. i was pleased that she also tentatively agreed to a national use of force standard that we think will be transformative. >> bernie sanders was not well received by those who were pushing for the black lives matter campaign.

how is hillary clinton more receptive and reactive than bernie sanders who is largely seen as being a supporter of this? >> we met with bernie, too, three or four weeks ago. had a good tough conversation with him. when we talked to sanders, he has a platform that we were able to push him on the details of. we had a conversation and in the end we were heard by him. he came out against forfeiture. with clinton there is no platform yet. we had a much more expansive conversation just because we are trying to influence the platform because it doesn't exist. >> the disrupt strategy, has it worked and do you think that you will need to continue to do this, disrupt, you know, these presidential campaign rallies and get your voice heard? will you need to do that because you've had these sit-downs? >> we know if people had not been in the streets a year ago nobody would be talking about police and race in the way that they are right now.

there was something core about being in the streets and rendering invisible the police that was not making it to the streets. the reality is we wouldn't be in the street if freddie gray was alive or anna jones or tamir. i'm excited about meeting with other candidates like many other protestors are. >> speaking of carson, o'malley, there's also rubio. you've asked meetings with that candidate. what are your hopes with them? >> yeah, so we know there will be another president of the you states and we want to make sure whoever the president is has an informed platform about race and black people specifically and criminal justice. hopefully we'll be able to talk about it. i'm candid in saying they have not talked about race beyond immigration in any great detail or any way that acknowledges institutional racism. i think rubio is probably the closest there. i have promise for rand paul but

some of his recent statements make it seem like he's walking away from the core. carson to help inform his ideas since he has a platform. >> i want to get your reaction on tamir rice. as you probably know the latest results in that case. the cuyahoga county has two reviews of the stooting of the 12-year-old boy. the report concluding that the police officer acted reasonably in deciding to shoot the 12-year-old boy who turned out to be carrying an air gun. what's your reaction to these reports? >> you know, the release of these reports confirms what we already knew to be true, that the system of policing in america is broken, that is race-based and it cannot be reasonable to kill a 12-year-old who has a toy gun and the caller who called it nsaid it was a toy gun. highlights the urgency of fixing the system and pushing beyond having a safety that doesn't

just center the police and also holds the police accountable. those reports confirm what we knew to be true, the system is fundamentally broken. >> thank you, deray, for your discussions. appreciate your time today. this afternoon roseberg will say good-bye to another victim from the campus shooting in oregon. another funeral planned for saturday. friends and family already paid respect to six of the victims. no word on the teacher, 66, levine lawrence. president obama said the united states is the only state with mass shootings happening every few months. john yang joins us with what other countries did after similar attacks. john, good morning to you. >> we looked at great britain and australia. both were shocked by mass shootings in 1996. after both of those cases the government response was swift

and tough. >> mick north's worth's changed on march 14th, 1996. >> the security and innocence of a scottish village was shattered in the most terrifying situation. >> a gunman walked in and killed a teacher and 16 children. one of them was north's 5-year-old daughter sofie. >> never at any time until i was actually informed that she was dead could i reconcile myself to the fact that she could be one of the victims. >> reporter: north's grief turned to determination. >> i wanted something to be done about it. >> reporter: and something was quickly done. >> we will ban all handguns from the home. we will outlaw completely higher caliber handguns. >> it was the watershed. it was the point that allowed a pretty significant public outcry that said, no, we don't want to

be like the wild west. >> reporter: in australia a similar response to the april 1996 shooting spree that left 35 people dead. a ban on semi-automatic rifles, strict gun registration and a government buy back of more than 640,000 weapons. in the united states though after 20 children and 6 staff were killed at sandy hook elementary school in netanyahutown, constitution congress shut down an assault weapon ban. >> i find it hard to understand the hard line attitude that in order to respect the bill of rights and the second amendment we must make it easier for crazy people to get firearms. >> for mick, he sends his

regards to those who have lost loved ones. >> there's something that binds those of us who have lost loved ones through such incidents together. ♪ amazing grace >> reporter: a community that sadly keeps growing. richard, after the charleston church shooting the national rifle association said the australia laws, quote, robbed australians of the right of self-defense and empowered criminals. incidentally, according to numbers from the united nations, australia's gun death rate is more than 20 times lower than the rate in the united states. richard? >> nbc's john yang, thank you so much. staying on that topic, in the wake of the oregon shootings, california has outlawed guns in schools. governor jerry brown there signing a bill that for bits people with permits for concealed weapons throughout the state of california. a woman is sent to jail even

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what's in your wallet? the case of domestmestic violence in florida is gaining new national attention because the victim was sent to jail after refusing to testify out. nbc's kristen dahlgren has the story. >> it seemed like annual easier thing to do. it seemed easier to go to jail than testify against him. >> reporter: at the victim's request nbc has agreed to shield her identity as she speaks publicly for the first time out of court. still in shock, a judge punished her for refusing to testify against the husband she alleges choked and threatened her at knife point. >> why didn't you show up to court? >> i just -- my anxiety and i'm just -- >> you think you have anxiety now? you haven't even seen anxiety. >> i knew i did wrong when i

missed the trial but i wasn't expecting her reaction. >> reporter: the court held her in contempt. >> i sentence you to three days in the county jail. the video went viral. advocates for abuse victims outraged. >> unfortunately many victims will remain silent because they'll see this and feel like they can't get the system involved. >> i think after everything that's happened i would most likely not call it the police at all. >> reporter: a spokesperson said the judge cannot comment on pending or impending cases and the state attorney points out victim testimony is key to successfully prosecuting such crime. something the victim says she understands. >> i broke the law and she has every right to do her job. >> reporter: but after serving her sentence she's still not over what happened in court. >> i'm just taking it one day at a time and there's good days and

bad days. >> reporter: kristen dahlgren, nbc news, new york. joining me now, defense attorney and former prosecutor karen desoto. karen, what might we be missing in this story. >> there is missed -- first of all, it's so disturbing that this was another woman doing this to a woman that's a victim. it's problematic for prosecutors. obviously it's very frustrating to prosecute these cases when i was a prosecutor we were mandated if they don't want to testify force them to testify if you can corroborate it and that's disturbing. why is that disturbing? because now the man is going to probably lose his job and you have the victim who's saying please don't make me testify, he's going to lose his job, then what am i going to do? it's putting the prosecutor in an uncomfortable position. if there's no such thing as a war against women, you're suffering from post traumatic stress. this woman had a knife and your

she was choked. >> you're mandated? >> yeah, you get a memo that says you're going to continue to prosecute these cases if you have corroborating evidence. you're a prosecutor. you have evidence that an assault took place. the victim -- lots of times you have victims who do not want to cooperate. what are you going to do? let the defendant go free or are you stuck in this type of circular problem. >> so the prosecutor needs to move forward. what about the judge in the case? >> the judge can do whatever they want meaning that she could have sentenced her to community service. she could have given her a pass. she has a 1-year-old daughter and you put a woman who's been traumatize the. we all know what stockholm syndrome is, domestic violence. you take a woman who has a 1-year-old child who's now living with her parents because of the abuse and you put them in jail. too harsh. >> that's not fixing the problem. >> you're saying too harsh. how common is this. >> very common. lots of people, large corporations have statutes or they have their own procedures

that say that if you're -- have a criminal charge against you you have 30 days to clear it or you lose your job. there's many women who won't pick up the phone. just like this victim said. i'm not going to call the police. that's not the type of behavior that you want women to now not call the police because now not only them but their children will be in danger. when you have laws like this that prevent women from picking up the phone when you need help, you wonder why you have domestic violence problems and children being abused and women getting killed. >> i want to talk about a review to take a step back from the very case. review of 26 different studies. it showed an average of 63% of arrests for domestic violence are prosecuted, the other are not. >> right. you don't have enough to being forward. yes, they are prosecuted. that's what was so disturbing from the ray rice case where there was public outcry that he wasn't being charged. this past may his charges were

expunged. other defendants don't receive those privileges and you go forward regardless of the victim if, again, you can corroborate it without the fix this? >> well, you don't throw the victim this is jail. >> is it a law issue though because you were mandated you said to prosecute? >> you get a memo but each prosecutor's office can do whatever they want. there have been programs where you get counseling, where you get to talk to somebody. if you're under pops traumatic stress, you don't throw them in jail. obviously if they're suffering from stockholm syndrome, obviously that needs counseling. jail is not going to fix that. >> karen, thank you so much. >> you're welcome. how did a family who refused to shop for an entire year handle christmas? we'll meet the parents. beyond natural grain free pet food

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he prescribed enbrel to help relieve pain and help stop further damage. enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal, events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you've been someplace where fungal infections are common, or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. joint pain and damage... can go side by side. ask how enbrel can help relieve joint pain and help stop joint damage. enbrel, the number one rheumatologist-prescribed biologic. imagine shannimagic shoppin basic item for only a month, or a week. that's what my next guests did

for an entire year. they wrote the book "a year without a purchase." good day to the two of you. how did you do this? one year you did this, you didn't buy a single thing or at least that was your goal. you started on new year's day in 2013. i think you only bought four things in the end is that right? >> that is correct, yes. it was -- for us it was about -- i'd say it's 90% spiritual, 10% financial. it was to try to get back in touch with our mission statement we wrote for our family about simplicity and connecting with what's important and serving others. we were getting far from that and we needed to do something drastic to reconnect with that. >> what was your rule as you went through this, gabby? you said we can only buy things that are, what, that you can use up in a year, is that what it was? >> you had to buy things you could use within a year. so toilet paper, okay, deodorant, okay. new pair of pants, not okay because we're all wearing pantsz today.

>> but you also bought -- i think you bought a vacuum cleaner, is that right? >> that would say near the end of the years. ours pooped out and we tried to fix it -- >> which was the second rule. you had to fix it if you could and we place it only if you couldn't fix it. >> you've got two children age 7 and 9. how did you all get along throughout this entire process, your children and the two of you? >> they -- we didn't tell them. we wanted to see can we try to be in the world but not of the consumer world. we didn't tell them and they did not notice. >> they didn't? >> not at all. >> not a single -- >> no because -- >> go ahead. >> we decided we weren't going to push our values on others, for birthdays and christmas others could buy them gifts. >> experience spend nearly $90 a day. you must have saved a bunch of money. >> we get that question a lot.

part of our mission statement is about serving others, so for us it was less about the savings and we could spend on experiences going to the zoo together and things that make more for lasting memories, but in the end we were able to give twice as much as we had before, which was significant for us. >> what about the gifts that you gave. tell us about christmas. >> christmas we -- santa adopted a philosophy of the wisemen gift. if three is good enough for jesus, it's good enough for jesus, and quickly moving from the gifts to we decided to do a service project together on christmas day as a family. >> okay. quickly, how are you different today? are you still saving? >> we do. i think the difference for us is we have more time for what's important and we spend more time together and not worrying about going shopping. >> the year without purchase, i have the book right here. i guess i can try to do that if you can, but you two are stronger than i, i think.

thank you so much. i appreciate your time today, scott and gabby. >> thank you a lot. >> that wraps up this sunday edition of "weekends with alex witt." up next, "meet the press." have yourself a good day. about a biologic, this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira helping me reach for more. doctors have been prescribing humira for more than 10 years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contrubutes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b,

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this sunday. you say you want a revolution? well you've got one in the republican party. >> i think i shocked some of you, huh? >> the gop red hots have proven they can decapitate their leadership. now, can they prove they can lead? plus, the democrats. biden is still deciding, clinton is still waffling, and sanders is still speaking out. >> people will have to contrast my consistency and my willingness to stand up to wall street and big corporations with the secretary. >> my interview with the democratic insurgent. and after supporting the president's asian trade deal dozens of times, hillary clinton now opposes it -- sort of. it may have been smart